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Replies: 12 / Views: 919 |
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Valued Member
United States
172 Posts |
Hello, I'm looking to expand from wheat cents into Buffalo nickels and am somewhat confused by the price guides on them. Typically values seem to be tied to mintage. However, in Buffalo nickels I can't make rhyme or reason of the values versus mintage. For instance, the 1937-S Buffalo nickel has a mintage of 5,635,000 according to PCGS and the 1930-S has a mintage of 5,435,000, yet both are valued quite a bit less than a number of earlier nickels with far higher mintages, such as the 1919-S and pretty much every D nickel from 1914-1920. There are others too. Why do Buffalo nickel values seem to defy mintage numbers? What am I missing?
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
4671 Posts |
Survival numbers and condition rarities. Survival rate of Buffalo nickels from the 30's are far higher than earlier years. Both dates you mentioned have a high survival rate in higher grades. Same goes for 31-s; this year was hoarded from the get go due to the general public's knowledge of a low mintage. It's common in MS, therefore carries less premium than earlier years with twice the mintage numbers.
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Valued Member
Topic StarterUnited States
172 Posts |
@Ty Survival rates? How does a coin die? I know that precious metal coins were melted from time to time or called back like gold in the 1930s, but how would a Buffalo nickel not "survive"?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7042 Posts |
Quote: but how would a Buffalo nickel not "survive"? In the 1920's thru the 1950's a nickel was a lot of money, widely used and wore out quickly. A Coke was a nickel (or six for a quarter), a bag of Fritos was a nickel. Candy bars were a nickel. Those things cost way more than that in the world we live in today. The design of the coin didn't help. The date and devices on the Buffalo nickel simply were worn off. Hence, that is why we saw so many dateless Buffalos during their 25 years of issue and they could still be found in circulation years later. The coin did its job well! It was still a widely used coin up into the early 1960's but then slowly faded into history as the Jefferson took hold and wore better.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3401 Posts |
Don't forget the nickelodeon - movies cost five cents. I wonder if a lot of them "died" during WWII when nickel was needed for the war, but I don't recall reading anything about a large melting.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10170 Posts |
Quote:@Ty Survival rates? How does a coin die? I know that precious metal coins were melted from time to time or called back like gold in the 1930s, but how would a Buffalo nickel not "survive"? The U.S. Gov't removes heavily worn coins from circulation and it "dies". Remember coins used to be worth their face value in metallic content. As a coins wears down it "falls out spec" and is subject to removal and, possibly, melting. Collecting of roll and bag quantity of coins really took off in the U.S. after the Roaring '20s. Many 1930's dated pieces were saved in mass while earlier dates from the teens and early/mid twenties were not saved and have lower availability regardless of mintage. There are many other factors but the two noted above are major contributors to "defying mintage numbers".
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Moderator
 United States
28493 Posts |
@hord, this complexity that you are discovering is something that I think makes coin collecting more fun. Determining a coin's value is more than just looking up the mintage numbers--understanding the history puts perspective and nuance into the value.
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push." -----Ghanaian proverb
"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed." -----King Adz
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
3932 Posts |
There is also the perception of rarity that causes disproportionate savings. First year/Last year of a design. And relative mintages... if people know ONE fact about Jefferson nickels, it's that 1950D is THE key date in the series. It was known at the time... there were plenty of 1956 news reports that "the 1950-D Nickel is rare, only 2.6 million were minted vs. 9.8 million in Philadelphia" so people looked for and saved 1950-D. Or did they? PCGS's survival rates are 7.8m out of 9.8m or 80% for the 1950 and 2.1m of 2.6m or 81% for the 1950-D. BUT estimates are 166K vs. 765K in MS65 or better. It would seem that 1950D Jeffs were saved earlier and thus in better condition than their peers. Today, a high-grade 1950 (MS65, PCGS, $28) is actually rarer than a high-grade 1950-D (MS65, PCGS, $28). Go figure. And the available populations are sufficient for the number of collectors so the prices aren't crazy. Now, look at the Washington quarters, 1932 (first year and initially a one-year commemorative type). 25c was a lot of value during the Depression. Only rich people could save them. 1932 - 5.4m minted, 500k survive (9%), 5k (0.1%) in MS65 or higher 1932D - 437k minted, 44k survive (10%), 650 (0.1%) in MS65 or higher 1932S - 408k minted, 40k survive (10%), 500 (0.1%) in MS65 or higher There are far more collectors than can be served by 500 or 650 coins. As a result, the MS65 1932S has a PCGS population of 186 (62 higher), and a price guide of $3,000. The 1932D is relatively rarer: population of 94 (10 higher), and a $12,500 guide price.
-----Burton 49 year / Life ANA member (joined 12/1/1973) Life member: Numismatics International, CONECA Member: TNA, FtWCC, NETCC, OnLine Coin Club Owned by four cats and a wife of 39 years (joined 1983) PS: ANA's records are messed up, they show me as a 50-year member and I'm now Emeritus
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4539 Posts |
There were millions of Buffalos that became dateless because of heavy usage, especially in the earlier years. That alone may account for the lower survival rate of Buffalos with recognizable dates in the teens and 20's.
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Valued Member
Topic StarterUnited States
172 Posts |
Thanks guys! Clearly I still have a lot to learn.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
4671 Posts |
Late back to the party. Nothing more to add that hasn't been stated above. All great points made! Main points I had in mind that were already touched on, is early date nickels were used, heavily! As Zurie pointed out, there are millions of dateless buffs out there, majority being early dates. There's a handful of great reference books out there if you're just delving into the world of Buffs. "The Authoritative Reference on Buffalo nickels" is a must! CoAuthored by the late Ron Pope, Wexler, and Kevin Flynn. The Complete Guide to Buffalo nickels by the late great David Lange is another. I was also pleasantly surprised by the 2nd Edition " A Guide book to Buffalo and Jefferson nickels" Red Book. David Bowers talks a bit more about the day to day use of nickels in commerce, more so than some of the other reference books. Bowers also talks a bit more from the buyers standpoint on what to consider when purchasing. These few are a great start, with several other great ones, but are a bit more geared towards varieties
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Valued Member
Topic StarterUnited States
172 Posts |
Thanks for the book recommendations. I really enjoyed the Bowers Guide on Lincoln Cents. Might have to check out his Buffalo nickel one as well.
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Bedrock of the Community
 United States
22519 Posts |
Thanks for asking the question, I was mildly curious about that as well
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Replies: 12 / Views: 919 |
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