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Basement Job Getting Bids........

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Pillar of the Community

Canada
1984 Posts
 Posted 02/17/2017  5:08 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Smallcentguy to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
A few odd things here, but if this was double struck don't you think the same die would have hit the coin both times? The two sets of beads on the right of the reverse look like they are not the same size.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CANADA-1983...32242945373?
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Canada
5324 Posts
 Posted 02/17/2017  5:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add john100 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I guess the weight would answer most of the question
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Apitrix's Avatar
Canada
581 Posts
 Posted 02/17/2017  5:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Apitrix to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree this coin has some issues to it. I believe it to be a basement made error as well, thus no bids from me LOL
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kbbpll's Avatar
United States
4233 Posts
 Posted 02/17/2017  7:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kbbpll to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Reverse looks triple struck to me - three sets of beads around 1-2:00. How could you garage-job this? Mint sport maybe. I can see where a one-third thickness (or less) sized planchet would have problems getting ejected from the dies, and the obverse strike would be really weak on such a thin planchet, but I'm no expert.
Valued Member
Australia
369 Posts
 Posted 02/17/2017  10:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add airgem to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looks genuine to me.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1984 Posts
 Posted 02/18/2017  11:50 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Smallcentguy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I am having second thoughts on this one.
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Altaira's Avatar
Canada
2519 Posts
 Posted 02/18/2017  12:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Altaira to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The raised second (and third?) "rim" says hammer job.
Formerly nancyc
Nevol's Avatar
Australia
5385 Posts
 Posted 02/18/2017  4:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Nevol to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Most 'garage' aka basement jobs we see here in Oz have a reverse image bashed onto them.

I'm not saying this coin is legit, but how would it get a positive image by having another coin banged onto it.

The seller clearly shows in their images that the planchet is way thinner than a 'normal' one. Maybe mint sport.

Might be time for another opinion.
life is a mystery to be lived not a problem to be solved
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trout1105's Avatar
Australia
7096 Posts
 Posted 02/18/2017  5:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add trout1105 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I am calling this genuine.
Every other shed job, vise job or hammer job I have seen has an incused design on the coin.
This is not the case with this particular coin and the planchet is incredibly thin compared to a regular coin.
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Altaira's Avatar
Canada
2519 Posts
 Posted 02/18/2017  5:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Altaira to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A "raised" design can be done with counterfeit soft dies. Make an impression of a coin on another piece of metal (the "die"), then hammer that "die" on a coin.

The reduced thickness is because the obverse had been ground down.
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johnnysprawl's Avatar
Canada
1620 Posts
 Posted 02/18/2017  5:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add johnnysprawl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
doesn't look legit to me.

You can see where the rim was originally formed on the obverse and was either ground down as SlurExe97 said or was flattened in a vice or press...
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Debrajc's Avatar
United States
4211 Posts
 Posted 02/18/2017  6:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Debrajc to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I am "leaning" genuine but I could be wrong.
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kbbpll's Avatar
United States
4233 Posts
 Posted 02/18/2017  6:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kbbpll to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't see how you're going to grind a coin down to one-third original thickness and leave the portrait and legends visible on the obverse.
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robmck1967's Avatar
Canada
870 Posts
 Posted 02/18/2017  10:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add robmck1967 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My take on this coin is that it is a split planchet. After striking, it failed to eject and another blank planchet entered the chamber. The reverse struck up nicely on the second strike although off center but the obverse was covered by the blank planchet effectively obliterating most of the original obverse strike. Plus the original obverse strike was likely weak to begin with because it is such a thin planchet. IMHO
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Canada
9864 Posts
 Posted 02/18/2017  11:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DBM to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
robmck1967, to me that sounds like a plausible scenario.
"Dipping" is not considered cleaning...
-from PCGS website
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SPP-Ottawa's Avatar
Canada
10458 Posts
 Posted 02/20/2017  4:39 pm  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
robmck1967, to me that sounds like a plausible scenario.


Not a chance...

There is no evidence of a "second strike" in the places where you would expect to see preservation of the devices (in the recesses of the dies, in their centre). Any second strike that was strong enough to obliterate a rim, would also remove the beads and most of the other devices from the first strike. What are the odds of having no rotation in collar betweens strikes, unless it was a cap on the reverse die?

If the first strike was that weak with a split planchet, then how did a fully formed rim happen on both sides of the coin (you can see the flattened rim on the obverse too)? Coins struck on split planchets have very distinctive textures, which in part are formed from the rolling of the metal strips - that is completely absent.

When a coin is struck and then sandwiched with a blank planchet (which is how brockage strikes are formed), the capped coin has a convex cap edge form where the metal is stretched on the edge of the hammer die, and the blank planchet that was struck, does get a mirror image brockage, but also has a cupped concave cap edge. The force of the dies forces the metal up around the hammer die and around the coin stuck to it.

Lastly, note that one strike that was "off-centre" a bit. Remember that the raised rim element and the 12-sided shape is formed by the collar die - please explain how is it possible to have a raised rim element, which includes the 12-sided shape (look below the word CANADA) well into the fields of the coin?

If the collar was there, it would be strongly impressed into the coin on one side (assuming it was sitting on a blank planchet, creating a spoon-like shape.

Basement-Job-Getting-Bids........
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