1891-S Double Eagle: Easily Verifying A PCGS Labeled "Authenticity Unverifiable" Coin.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion! My statement is based on many struck fakes in TPG holders as genuine that match the genuine die pairing and overlays. It is a fact that the 20+ different examples in my collection and the 25+ different denominations/ varieties document attest to!

Another factor to be taken into account here is that it would benefit no one to make a counterfeit, in gold of the proper weight, of one of the most common twenty dollar Double Eagles.

Even if this coin was a fake, it is of no more value than it being real.

So let's go hypothetical.

To make a counterfeit that will pass an overlay test, called a transfer die counterfeit, you need the original design from the master die (as transferred to all working dies).

So the counterfeiter had to take an original 1891-S Double Eagle and destroy it with a hard impact into a softer metal to transfer the legitimate design - this is why they call it a transfer die counterfeit). They then would have had to destroy another legit double eagle for the REV side design.

After this they would have gone through the problem of using both of those those impressions to make one counterfeit 1891-S double eagle of poper weight, size, dimensions, and gold content.

The 1891-S double eagle is one with the highest mintage and one of the pieces most encountered.

Now we all know the Chinese like making fake coins...but not out of the correct gold content/weight/dimensions of real coins.

We all know counterfeiters are in the business to make profits...the larger the better.

So if this coin was a fake, that means a counterfeiter took a HUGE amount of effort and investment to make a fake gold coin that would net them no profit b/c it was worth only what ONE of the legitimate coins they destroyed was worth.

So that would seem to rule out any contemporary counterfeiters or modern ones b/c they put out double cost of a legit double eagle to make absolutely no profit!

If this were a rare date and MM, then the above would make sense b/c they might make a profit if they could pawn the coin off on someone.

BTW - I did this video b/c my friend who had this graded is a respected dealer who knew it was legit or would not have sent it in. He said he was not going to sell it b/c he was afraid some people who have faith in the unquestionable status (MY word...not his) of PCGS would consider this coin a fake no matter what.

So I asked to do this overlay b/c I know overlays are, for the most part going to be able to show a fake. The few fakes that can pass this test, such as mentioned above, will cost more than the counterfeiter gets back for his efforts unless the coin is a rare date.

In fact, been doing more homework, I see where some transfer die coins not only show surface anomalies for the original destroyed coins which can be detentecd whielt eh overlays might match up with both sides of a legit coin. If the counterfeiters destroy non-rare coins to make the transfer dies (like possible with a 1916-D dime), then while an overlay of the OBV (in this case) will line up, the overlay of the REV will not unless the counterfeiter used a legit 1916-D dime to make the REV instead of using a common D Mercury dime. This is why a transfer die fake 1916-D dime can pass an OBV overlay test, but it won't pass a REV. The MM locations and appearance will not be the same.

The second video I show this gold coins MM position and appearance are identical to a legitimate coin.

So we either have a very dumb counterfeiter who enjoys losing money (for time and effort), or we simply have a real coin PCGS did not verify.

After doing the research, including the essay in my signature which shows a lot of error using PCGS's own linked data, with Kennedy halves, for me it is a lot more plausible to take the verifiable and repeatable data and efforts as shown in the video as legitimate rather than to simply have some sort of faith PCGS is always correct and unquesitonable.

Then again, it is a lot easier for me to be objective in this b/c I do not have money invested into their reputation. But the more personal experience I have studying them, their slabs, and their business, the more I am not seeing what I was first led to believe about the company integrity/professionalism when re-entering the hobby again many years ago. I also have not lost any money to them, so have no personal financial axe to grind with them. But the fact there are some who would regulate this legit coin to be melted is not a good thing.

Actually, the benefit was to evade the ban on owning gold in the US prior to 1974. Lots of counterfeits were made with the correct gold content for this purpose - it was the only way to legally own gold. Faking the most common coins was probably done on purpose - they would attract less scrutiny. I'm not saying this is one of those.

Here's an article discussing Middle East gold counterfeits.

https://www.ngccoin.com/news/articl...-Half-Eagle/

Yes, there is the Middle East demand version, but NGC also says several times in various places that it was due to the prohibition on owning gold in the US. Some of both I suppose.
https://www.ngccoin.in/resources/co...d-states/22/

What I am very glad for is that some of the responses, maybe unintentionally, show the very point my videos are showing.




1. So you are saying you have many fakes in PCGS slabs? This supports the point of my video.

2. Your 25 PCGS slabbed-as-legit-fakes, adds to the validity of my experiment in the video.


So I have two questions:
1. Why you posted in disagreement when what you have in hand verifies the point about the lack of expertise as claimed?

2. How do you know yours are fakes (not questioning they are)? I simply showed how I could verify my friend's to be authentic when PCGS was only about half as certain since they labeled the double eagle as non-verifiable as authentic.

And since their website says they will not slab a coin they know to be fake, they slabbed yours and therefore (wrongly) "knew" yours were legit.

Again, all this goes against the PCGS stated level of expertise.






This is again pointing to what the video is all about. PCGS's level of expertise is not what many people blindly take as being absolute. BY saying "blindly" I am referring to the untold numbers of people seeing slabs for sale and just assuming PCGS is THE absolute authority on everything having to do with coins, when the mindset of seasoned collectors is that they know to buy the coin and not the slab.

See the essay in my signature showing with PCGS linked data from their website how the No FG assignments of Kennedy halves can be shown to have 30% + error. It is unfortunate b/c some of the prices paid (also shown) show people have spent thousands on a coin obviously not what the label says it is.

I also am glad it was mentioned some gold was counterfeited when it was illegal to own gold. I would think the markers for these fake coins, as reproduced if the dies were made from genuine coins, would be available online such as found for other counterfeits.

I would also like to see good photographs of these gold coins to try to match them up with legitimate dies. Just for research sake.



And, of course, I am not saying that if someone just likes the slabbed coins regardless of actual expertise, then all the more power to them as well. A hobby is about fun.

I posted in disagreement when you stated that when an overlay of an evaluation coin matches a genuine one it is from genuine dies! I also posted in disagreement your comment about the process destroying the genuine source coin. And quite honestly I have probably missed what ever your "point" has morphed into at this time, supported by whatever your stated level of expertise is...

I do apologize for continuing this odd exchange as it is beginning to remind me of one of Murphy's laws and I don't want to participate in that going forward.