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Bedrock of the Community
 United States
10047 Posts |
@Morgan's Dad...thanks @basebal...my friend, I think we both will faint...we found some common ground at last   Quote:
This is a blessing to all of us. If we all had the same taste and wanted the exact same things, the overwhelming majority of us would never be able to afford anything So true...now how can I get all other collectors not to like the 1916-D Mercury dime so I can get one for cheap?  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5640 Posts |
Seems like the OGP 19 XE'S are selling for between $1,000 and $1,100.... Some a tad more, but looks like the storm might be settling down. Till the TPG'S return the slabs..........PS, Earle, I too collect " your other " hobby... The colors are amazing, they are not everywhere, but they are out there..... !! |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2335 Posts |
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They serve the American public at large with circulating coins. As I said before the possible extra 20k they could have made sucking the bone dry isn't even one second of the federal budget, it's 100% meaningless. I'd be interested to know where the 20K figure comes from. Obviously they minted 30K coins & probably could have doubled or tripled the sale price which would be a heck of a lot more than an extra 20k. Having said that, I don't buy into the idea that the huge increase in value on this mint product in particular and other modern issues (from various governments) in general is something that is sustainable and long term. I believe that a large portion of the price increases of modern issues is driven by speculation and "investment" rather than collection for appreciation of the coins themselves. Disclaimer: Due to my own lack of seriously trying and a faulty memory I was not able to buy one from the mint. Had I been able to I would have immediately flipped it for as much of a profit as possible...which is entirely consistent with my belief that they won't hold value over time. |
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
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I'd be interested to know where the 20K figure comes from. Obviously they minted 30K coins & probably could have doubled or tripled the sale price which would be a heck of a lot more than an extra 20k. Was just a hypothetical that there is no greater good of the tax payer argument. Could be 3 million and it makes no real difference to the tax payer. If they were going to break their norm and try and get as much as they can per coin they probably would have priced it at 400-500ish. That of course would have lead to people screaming they were being ripped off. Would it have sold out at a price like that I don't know, but we do know it wouldn't have been an instant sellout and the instant sellout is part of why the price has exploded. It'll never sniff mint price again. What the value will be long term no one knows now but it's highly unlikely it ever gets below several hundred dollars unless they start doing something like this all the time. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10047 Posts |
@Morgans dad
PM sent.
I actually just traded an insulator (multi-person trade) for a great metal lathe about three weeks ago!
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7293 Posts |
I usually never agree with basebal but on this one I actually do agree. I don't collect ASE, but in this case I read the facts and thought it was a good deal with little downside so I picked one up. At $70 shipped it was a no brainer, but I would never pay current going rates. It's just a common coin with limited mintage (it is very well done and pretty), the speculators really took advantage and jacked up the price and as everyone is comparing this one to the 1995, it's no surprise the price went crazy. As to getting one, it was annoying but I got one and you had a chance on Friday and since it's still not completely sold out the mint may have it for sale again probably around the 29th só if you didn't get one there maybe a chance. I personally think the price will stabilize after a few weeks at around $850-$1000, that's my opinion based on the amount going up for sale, but I don't know. As to how dealers got these, it's really easy, my brother that doesn't collect got an email offering $250 for each coin they got. A lot of non collectors jumped on it. As to why all the speculators one can blame the mint for low mintage but really places this website , Coin World, coin week and the TPG even hyped it. So the real reason not everyone got one that wanted one and other got many you can blame on yourself. You along with everyone hyped up this coin made it what it is. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1913 Posts |
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Every one had the same fair shot to get the coin, they [US Mint] served the public The problem with how the mint handled this is that literally everyone had the same shot at getting the coin. Loyal collectors of ASE's were treated no differently than speculators who had never purchased a coin from the mint. The result of this is that a bunch of people who could care less about coin collecting have been given the opportunity to extract money out of loyal ASE collectors. This is terrible treatment of loyal customers in my opinion. The mint could have given loyal ASE collectors a head start, but chose not to bother. Quote:
PS There is no right to a drivers license, it is a privilege A privilege is a special right or advantage not enjoyed by everyone. I don't think privilege is the correct word here as it implies that the government can limit driving access simply because it has the power. Fact is that the government is required to provide a drivers license to everyone who obeys the laws that we have agreed upon. To put it another way, simply because the government is given the power to regulate a right does not cause that right to become a privilege. |
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
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The problem with how the mint handled this is that literally everyone had the same shot at getting the coin. That's exactly how it should be. If they were going to distribute them by "loyalty" then the big dealers would have gotten every single one as they spend more in a month than most collectors will in a year Quote:
A privilege is a special right or advantage not enjoyed by everyone. I don't think privilege is the correct word here as it implies that the government can limit driving access simply because it has the power. That's exactly the right word for it hence the driving laws are so different state to state. Some states you get your permit when you turn 14, others it's 16. Some states it's 6 months with a permit for a drivers license others its a year. Some states you can't drive after 10pm if you're under 18 or have more than one person in the car that isn't family etc. Even what it takes to have it revoked varies wildly. Rights are constitutionally protect and the government has to show good cause to limit those rights such as not being able to yell fire in a crowded theater. Driving bears no protection and the states are free to change their laws to whatever they want for it whenever they want with the only real check on it being the voters. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1913 Posts |
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That's exactly how it should be. If they were going to distribute them by "loyalty" then the big dealers would have gotten every single one as they spend more in a month than most collectors will in a year For starters, the mint's collector coin offerings are created for collectors, not so big dealers can make a living. That said, I'd be fine with the big dealers being able to purchase proportional to their ASE purchases. Of course if there were not going to be enough available based on there being more ASE purchasers than the proposed mintage, then that's a big clue that the proposed mintage was too low. Simply because government regulations vary widely from state to state, it doesn't make what's being regulated a privilege. Is the "right to keep and bear arms" a privilege because the regulations vary wildly from state to state? Nope, so toss that argument out the window. I would encourage a review of the 9th Amendment. Edited by Bret
12/02/2019 11:19 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10047 Posts |
Quote:The problem with how the mint handled this is that literally everyone had the same shot at getting the coin. Loyal collectors of ASE's were treated no differently than speculators who had never purchased a coin from the mint. The result of this is that a bunch of people who could care less about coin collecting have been given the opportunity to extract money out of loyal ASE collectors. This is terrible treatment of loyal customers in my opinion. The mint could have given loyal ASE collectors a head start, but chose not to bother. I understand what you are saying here, but this could never be done anyway. Besides Basebal's valid point about the large businesses who are loyal and spend big bucks compared to private collectors, there is also the problem that with a mintage of only 30K, which of the loyal customers would be chosen? I would think there certainly are more than 30K loyal ASE customers to the mint. This is the most popular silver coin made in the world. So if they would have decided to make a higher mintage, then the coin would not have made such a stir in numismatics (as I suspect was the mint's purpose in limiting this coin). I know what it is like to be an actual victim of the mint's system messing up and, therefore, losing out on a great buy. I had an order for 6 of the special 2011 ASE sets (included the 2011 reverse proof). I went through the process of ordering by phone. I was given as order number with verbal confirmation the order was completed and would be shipped. Making a long story short - I called again to check up on the status a little laterr and the order was never filled. I kept calling back every other week trying to get them to do something about it and was always told they were working on it. It never happened. This time I went into the process knowing it would be difficult to get one since everyone had the same shot at it and the number available was limited. I admit I do not like they did not sell them all at that one time. But I cannot blame them as the mechanics of trying to sell something so popular and the amount of resources they have to do it are something I know nothing about. How much squash could a Sasquatch squash if a Sasquatch would squash squash? Download and read: Grading the graders Costly TPG ineptitude and No FG Kennedy halveshttps://ln5.sync.com/dl/7ca91bdd0/w...i3b-rbj9fir2 |
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
Quote: That said, I'd be fine with the big dealers being able to purchase proportional to their ASE purchases Then you're saying you want the 9 authorized mint distributors and more specifically the 5 US based ones to have control of the entire mintage. When they make a purchase it's value is in the millions at a time Quote:
Simply because government regulations vary widely from state to state, it doesn't make what's being regulated a privilege. Is the "right to keep and bear arms" a privilege because the regulations vary wildly from state to state The right to bear arms is specifically mention in the bill of rights, it is also the 2nd Amendment making it the most important thing behind free speech. I already mentioned what the actual test is for right vs privileged. Rights the government has to show a legitimate public interest to infringe on, privileges can be changed on a whim by the elected representatives. The right to bear arms would require a constitution amendment to change, state legislatures can change driving laws and requirements whenever they feel like. To use an example if your state banned gun ownership tomorrow the courts would strike it down for infringing on an actual right. That is an actual protected right. If tomorrow your state decided from now on you have to be 21 to have a licenses it would stand in court and there would be no federal intervention other than they would still have to honor licenses from other states, aka privilege. State laws and booklets even say driving is a privilege not a right. The 9th Amendment does not cover driving. Rights you have to do something major to lose the right to it such as commit a felony, driving you can lose your license for going 5 mph over the speed limit a few times in a 12 month period, hardly anything major. People confuse rights and privileges all the time. Just because it is generally accepted that you can do something doesn't make it a protected right |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1913 Posts |
Quote:there is also the problem that with a mintage of only 30K, which of the loyal customers would be chosen? I would think there certainly are more than 30K loyal ASE customers to the mint. This is the most popular silver coin made in the world. Exactly, which is why the mintage should have never been limited to 30k. Quote:
So if they would have decided to make a higher mintage, then the coin would not have made such a stir in numismatics (as I suspect was the mint's purpose in limiting this coin). If this was their logic in setting the 30k limit, then they decided to do a publicity stunt at the expense of their loyal ASE customers. BTW, I'm not convinced any brains went in to determining the mintage at all. I've seen nothing from the mint indicating any sort of thought process. I'm thinking they just messed up. Regarding driving not being listed in the Bill of Rights, other rights not listed are the very reason the 9th Amendment exists. The founders wanted to make it clear that the absence of a right being specifically listed in the Constitution should not cause people to view it as any less of a right. That's exactly what you're doing. All that said, I agree that they're ultimately accountable at the voting booth. |
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
Quote:If this was their logic in setting the 30k limit, then they decided to do a publicity stunt at the expense of their loyal ASE customers. There was no expense to anyone. No one has a right to get whatever they want for the price they want. It was a fun product that got people excited. Everyone that got one is absolutely thrilled and the product is still on fire. There isn't a single other product you can say that about in the last two years or so including the pride sets Quote:
Regarding driving not being listed in the Bill of Rights, other rights not listed are the very reason the 9th Amendment exists. There's a rather narrow interpretation of the 9th amendment such as applying free speech to typing or texting etc. Putting driving in there would be a broad one which by default would mean everything is a right, which it isn't Driving flat out is not a protected right and no court as ever treated it as such, it really is that simple |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7293 Posts |
I think whether you consider the release a debacle or great idea depends on whether you were able to get a coin or not.
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
Not at all. I missed a Pallidum and still consider it a success. I want products that get people excited and create a buzz like this. That's a successful product. Anything that sits for over a year with an unlimited mintage that 2 hours after it's released no one is talking about anymore like 99 percent of their products is boring. It's nice having exciting things mixed in.
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Replies: 51 / Views: 6,061 |
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Posted 11/24/2019 1:54 pm
